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Does SQL and MS Access overlap each other ? Are they dependent ?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by ThrottleWorks, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. ThrottleWorks

    ThrottleWorks Excel Ninja

    Messages:
    1,738
    Hi,

    I have just started reading soft copy of ‘Microsoft Access 2010’ by Michael R. Groh.
    As I was browsing on Mr. Excel’s Access forum, there were various references to SQL.
    That is why I have below doubts in my mind.


    Does SQL and MS Access overlap each other ?

    Are the dependent ?

    Do one need to learn both to proceed further, in other words, if I read access only and ignore SQL or vice versa.

    Will I be incomplete in my learning.

    Can anyone please help me in this.
    PS - Reading softcopy first to decide if I should buy hardcopy of the same before going ahead.
  2. Chihiro

    Chihiro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,669
    SQL is Structured Query Language. And has many derivatives.

    All (to my knowledge) relational database management system (RDBMS) use variant of SQL.

    MS SQL uses Transact-SQL, MySQL uses SQL/PSM, Oracle uses PL/SQL etc.

    MS Access uses it's own SQL (though similar to TSQL).

    There are many things common to all SQL variants, but there are enough differences, most query can't be ported directly from one to the other.

    However, if you learn one, it isn't difficult to pick up another.
    ThrottleWorks likes this.
  3. ThrottleWorks

    ThrottleWorks Excel Ninja

    Messages:
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    Good morning @Chihiro sir. Thanks for the help.

    Sir does this mean SQL mentioned in the first line by you and SQL by MS Access are different. Sorry for making it confusing.

    Also, would you recommend to go ahead with ‘Microsoft Access 2010’ by Michael R. Groh. Just as FYI, at present, 99% per cent of my work involves MS Excel.
    So, just wanted to know if above mentioned book right for me.

    Have a nice day ahead. :)
  4. Chihiro

    Chihiro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,669
    Every database management system has it's own variation on SQL. Basic structure and many functions are shared. But there are enough differences between each that direct port of script isn't often possible (you need minor syntax adjustments and such).

    There is ANSI and ISO (and few other) standards, but each variant does not necessarily follow that standard. You can read more about it on Wiki (under Interoperability and standardization section). Search for "Wiki SQL"

    No idea on the book. I learned everything I know about MS Access, Excel etc from trial and error and through forums and web searches.

    Since MS Access is file based and not server based, you can just set up sample database and applications to test to your heart's content.

    I'd recommend downloading Northwind from MS.
    https://www.thoughtco.com/installing-northwind-sample-database-access-2010-1019696

    Edit: Grammar.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
    ThrottleWorks likes this.
  5. AlanSidman

    AlanSidman Active Member

    Messages:
    164
    ThrottleWorks likes this.
  6. NARAYANK991

    NARAYANK991 Excel Ninja

    Messages:
    15,586
    Hi ,

    While different variants of SQL may have differences , I think that is not a very significant part of learning SQL ; there are different flavours of C , but learning C as a programming language involves much , much more than memorizing the syntax of a hundred commands.

    Learning SQL means being able to create queries ; the ability to create complex queries is practically impossible without a proper and deep understanding of how RDBMS work , tables , keys , joins , normalization , relationships ,...

    So if you intend to master SQL , take the effort to understand RDBMS.

    See this for an introduction :

    https://www.tutorialspoint.com/sql/sql-rdbms-concepts.htm

    Narayan
    ThrottleWorks and (deleted user) like this.
  7. ThrottleWorks

    ThrottleWorks Excel Ninja

    Messages:
    1,738
    Hi @NARAYANK991 sir, thanks for the help.

    Sorry for making in confusing. If I am correct, learning MS Access will involve learning SQL as well. Be it MS Access's own SQL or otherwise.

    I guess, the SQL queries I have seen on Mr. Excel's Access forum might be related to MS Access's SQL also.

    Thanks for the link. I have saved it my favourite.
    Also, sir, would you suggest any MS Access book for me.

    @Chihiro sir has advised to use forum and web searches.
    However, I guess given my learning capacity / type, book will help me a lot.
  8. ThrottleWorks

    ThrottleWorks Excel Ninja

    Messages:
    1,738
    Hi @AlanSidman sir, thanks for the help. Have saved these links to my favourite bar. Have a nice day ahead. :)

    Hi @Chihiro sir, thanks for the help.
    You are :awesome:

    Have a nice day ahead. :)
  9. NARAYANK991

    NARAYANK991 Excel Ninja

    Messages:
    15,586
    Hi ,

    You are right ; Access is a DBMS , but the major difference is that Access also has VBA as a programming language while other RDBMS have their own programming language in addition to SQL or as extensions of SQL ; Oracle , for example has PL/SQL.

    Thus , Access is easier to learn than Oracle , though comparing the two is like comparing chalk and cheese.

    However , unless you intend to graduate to being a hard-core programmer working on large data systems , Access is good enough for most small applications.

    You can develop applications in Access without having to learn too much of SQL , but if you intend to work exclusively on large systems , then SQL is a must.

    Once you have gone through a couple of books , then the only way to progress in your knowledge is to join online forums , since questions asked on these are from real-life , and deal with practical applications of SQL ; see this link for some of the good forums :

    https://www.johnsansom.com/top-5-sql-forums/

    Narayan
    ThrottleWorks likes this.
  10. Chihiro

    Chihiro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,669
    ThrottleWorks likes this.
  11. shrivallabha

    shrivallabha Excel Ninja

    Messages:
    1,743
    I have a hard copy of the Missing Manual but never got beyond few pages. Spent time on Excel instead.

    My opinion on this book or online part is more philosophical. Are you willing to finish it? If the answer is yes then read any one. Over the course of time you will get there where you want to be.

    If I remember this thread say after 2 years and ask the status (none of my business really) then what will be the OP's answer? Please do not get me wrong here. I am not discouraging from learning.
    ThrottleWorks likes this.
  12. ThrottleWorks

    ThrottleWorks Excel Ninja

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    1,738
    Hi @NARAYANK991 sir, now my confusion is clear.
    Thanks for the help. Good night.


    Hi @Chihiro sir, thanks a lot for the help.
    Have a nice day ahead. :)

    Hi @shrivallabha sir, I know you are not discouraging me. I am sure about this.
    Good night. :)
    As a childhood habit, I am comfortable with hard copy.
  13. Chihiro

    Chihiro Well-Known Member

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    3,669
    I answer based on "yes" always. No point in responding otherwise ;)
    ThrottleWorks likes this.

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