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Am I too suspicious?

D

DonMinter

Member
I participate in a few different forums (fora?), although this is the only one where I use my real name. Regardless, it seems this forum has the same problem that the other tech forums I'm in have. To wit: Posters asking for help with homework.


For example (and I may be wrong), a user currently has a post up asking for very simple help for a medium-level, or maybe end-of-first-level course. His initial questions followed by his follow-up questions are showing that he is coming up with some unique problems for which he doesn't have basic skills.


When we get these on other forums, we usually help them find the right keyword, but make them do the work. Here, I notice that folks just "give the code," which helps the person get the grade, but certainly won't help them when they get a job as an MS Office guru who doesn't know how an =if(statement,1,0) works.


As the title says, am I just being too suspicious?


Don
 
Hi Don ,


You may be right ; or again you may not ! It is not a matter that needs to be decided one way or the other.


In any forum , posters can ask any question they want ; the people who know the answer and want to share it , do so , those who wish to ignore the question are perfectly free to do so. If a person keeps asking homework questions , and fails to get answers , he / she will eventually stop asking.


My personal opinion is that knowledge should be free ; knowledge should be for everyone.


Feynman's lectures on Physics are famous for their wit and wisdom and openness ; Feynman was a Nobel prize winner ; I cannot think of a better role model.


Narayan
 
Hi Don


(Fori?) ;-)


You may be right, however, I don't think there is any way of policing this unfortunately - I find these forums extremely helpful and although someone may just "give the code" to me to use in my project(s), I do try and go away and actually see what the code is doing rather than just "pasting and forgetting".


I think the majority of the people on here (yourself included by the sound of things) are also of this frame of mind. I agree that there are going to be some unscrupulous people who get tasked with projects for School/College/University/Work etc. and just see Google/Excel Forums in general as a meal ticket to get what they want, but I don't think the rest of us should be punished because of this.


I also agree that maybe it would be better (sometimes) for responders to let the Original Poster do some of the leg-work to get the results they want/need, as some posters do seem to just "Hit & Run", but I don't think this would be in the nature of most people - most, I feel, want to be as helpful as they can and want to learn as much as they can and are not too concerned about whatever nefarious reasons someone is asking a question.


Also, I think most people have busy lives - so even those that do "Hit & Run" may not be doing it out of spite, but are just wanting to get the advice they need to close a project and get out.


You are definitely RIGHT to be suspicious, it happens all the time no doubt, I just hope the few who DO abuse Forums/Fora?/Fori? like this don't spoil it for the rest of us who are glad of the code being easily available!


I suppose it is up to the individual poster as to how freely the help/advice/assistance/code they give out is available, but, from my own personal experience I hope it continues to be readily available - that is the only way I have learned! There is still SO MUCH I don't know or understand!


Sorry Don I don't mean this to come across like I am preaching! Just my two-pennies worth!


Best regards


Alex
 
Hi DonMinter,


While my brothers and sister use the PC to play CS3 or some thing similar or use face-book, I like to post on this forum!! It is up-to oneself how did he use a facility. When i posted for the first time on this forum, the response was so great and accurate that I started posting myself.


And most of the people who are genuinely interested in solving their problem in long run will never ever just copy paste code, they ask for an explanation. You can see few people do and other do not. SirJB7 is right that it is up to oneself how does he proceeds!!


Happy Posting,

Faseeh
 
@Faseeh


Hi, my dear friend!


You're gonna make me blush.


Thanks a lot for your kindly comments, but as to be fair we should extend it to many -I'd say a lot of- people that post, explain, help and advise at this forums.


I won't enumerate them, it's just enough to follow the posts to know who they are. And many of them are really amazing, not only over-skilled but with that touch of common sense that's not common and that makes things easier.


My acknowledge to them. They know I know who they are.


And you, Faseeh, ... well, I admire the compromise you're taking with aiding and posting. And the effectiveness too, as well. Chapeau, mon ami!


Regards!
 
@ SirJB7,


You are absolutely right, Hui, Luke M, Narrayan, Old Chippy, Fred, dan l, DonMinter, mrzoogle and there are so many who can just make one say 'Wow what a solution' none try to hide any thing everything is available for everyone.


For me it is better to improve my excel skills and help anyone then just playing CS or updating my status at FB. :D


Faseeh
 
-----

Agree about CS and FB, but... have you tried Need For Speed - The Run?

-----


I wasn't here between November and January. I was too busy playing skyrim.
 
Don


I think the answer to your post subject is Yes & No.


There has been a number of times where clearly people are asking assignment questions here at the Chandoo.org Forums, but a few ideas:


1. Is that any different to somebody asking a Work Related question ?

2. If the student learns from a detailed explanation is that wrong?

3. If somebody else who isn't a student learns from the explanation is that wrong ?


I think the concept here at Chandoo.org is to provide a source of information.


I think it is up to the recipient of the information as to how they use it.


If a student takes the time to study the answer and an AHA moment happens and they have learnt from it then it is a good outcome


If the student basically copies and plagiarizes the answer without learning then the only person missing out is the student. But that's there choice.
 
I wasn't trying to STOP people from helping. I wasn't trying to have any rules implemented to prevent or insist on some changes. On the contrary, one of my main tasks in the "real world" is to instruct our junior people. I guess I was just trying to get folks at Chandoo.org a little more aware that if someone is just here getting someone to do their work for them, then it isn't fair to either person.


I try to do approach the answer more like: "Here's how I'd do it" kind of a post. Such as saying, "You have an OR statement. Break down the OR arguments into two different cells, and see what they tell you." This way, the person learns how to break down a problem next time. It would have been easier for me to type. "Here's your code X=x=x", but then the person won't learn anything.


I'm not an excel guru. I'm not even guru-trainee. Heck, I don't even know the proper plural for "forum;" however, I try to "pay back" when I'm helped. I got help here, and I'm just trying to keep things moving forward.


I guess this post was just one of my pet peeves. I don't mind helping folks, but I won't do their work for them. That helps no one.


Don
 
Hi Don

I don't think anybody took your question/answer the wrong way


As an aside I would actually rather assist an appreciative student who bothers to say thank you, than others whom, after spending maybe hours on a problem for them, never acknowledge that they have even seen the answer or that it helped them


Just my 2cents worth!


ps: http://www.mediacollege.com/internet/forum/forums-vs-fora.html
 
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My example might be a classic one, or not! I know only basic Excel. My wife came up with a spreadsheet she is using at work. She asked me if we could automate the data entry part. I knew that VBA was probably needed to do it but I knew nothing of it and we had no time to learn enough about it to solve my problem in a reasonable amount of time.

I asked in this forum and Hui graciously provided a piece of code. I then realized that if data entry made a mistake, they couldn't use undo so I asked for another solution. Again Hui provided another piece of code. I was in heaven.

Eventually I realized I had to make this code available at the workbook level instead of sheet level. I searched and found a partial answer. Narayank991 provided the final piece missing.

This data entry automation, even though nobody asked for it, might make the difference between her keeping the job or not because of her initiative even if they know she did not write the code.

Did somebody do my homework? Yes, you guys did and I will be forever grateful and it pushed me to want to learn more to eventually become more self-sufficient. Thanks to all who are wishing to share their knowledge as I do in my own field of work.
 
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

Internet has made it easy to lay hands on almost any information. It is simple search and get what you are looking for. So options, opportunities are literally limitless.

So one can choose to learn fishing in any category. But with that comes the hitch. One cannot learn anything and everything. Though the information out there is huge we have limited resources i.e. brain, memory and time.

One has to be judicious to understand which fishing skill is essential for survival and that he / she should learn and invest energies in. But then once in a while you will need solution for an item / skill you have not learned. In such cases, a virtual forum like this one could be the way to go to get good help. Again such type of community needs people of both kinds, ones who are having issues and the ones who can resolve. Both get benefits in their own ways.

Once in a while there comes a post which is more than a reward knowing that the person may not want to learn those skills. This happened on VBAX few years back.
http://www.vbaexpress.com/forum/showthread.php?39573-some-rows-wanted
The guy I helped is a doctor and he was trying to help disabled kids and wishes me on my birthday since then. And if some day I travel to Belgium then he has promised to show me few places around.

Edit: Experiences such as the last one compensate for all the posts where some people do not care to give feedback or forget to thank.
 
Also, it is very subjective. What might be very difficult for me, might be easier for others and vice versa. I have taken 'ready help' from this forum on numerous times.

When I am stuck or absolutely have no idea, my first 'F1' is Chandoo !

Regarding ready codes, I am not being arrogant.

Personally I would be happy with ready codes, not denying that.
Why ? For me, it is lot easier to break the ready code in single line and understand what is happening.

I can use these logic for future macros.

Many times it happens, I know what logic is requited. But have no idea how to write it in coding language. Ready answers help me to know, how experts here exactly write code, how do they manipulate object etc.

Yes, if I am asking same type of questions, then it is a problem.

If we consider students asking questions here, we can not stop them.
It is up to them where they want ready answers or need guideline.

You never know, who is student and who is professional.

Have a nice day. :)
 
There are times when I need an answer right NOW and I don't have time to do homework at the moment. Later, after I've been able to implement a solution, I'll take the time to come back to it and do the proper homework and research to understand fully.

When I have answers, I hand them out. This forum and other forums I'm in. I think that it comes back around when I need it so when I can, I'll put it out there for others.

--Wag--
 
Up to the individual user.

My responses vary depending on:
- Whether I'm interested in the topic
- Whether it's a quick fix or not
- Whether I'm busy or free
- Whether the user constantly spams my inbox

My responses vary as per below:
- Provide solution directly
- Leave hints & tips on how to resolve the query
- Provide links for self research by user
- Ignore thread
 
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